Curse

twicky_kid · Sep 11, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Ran a build last night that was sort of like this. Problem???

No offense.

I would take out the trapper and add traps to the mels and crip shot. Add some dps and you'll be fine.

Spallenzani · Sep 12, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

My guild has been running an NR/Tranq build with some success since the beginning of the weekend ladder season all the way through to this off-season. We've had some success, consistently holding a top 100 position, and settling around r50 or so. (I have a feeling we were the guild JR mentioned playing against, though I wasn't playing that day.) The original motivation for using this type of build was dealing with the two major gimmick builds at that time: SB/RI and Thumper Smite. [Mush] ran a similar build and finished the weekend season in the top 16.

I'm not going to bother going into the details of what may or may not be wrong with this particular version of a GvG NR/Tranq build, since others have already done that.

I'm more interested in the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of the build in general.

As it turned out, NR/Tranq wasn't really all that great for dealing with either SB/RI or Thumper Smite. Against SB/RI, you don't want to face them heads up 8v8 even with the spirits up, so it just turns into a game of splits, for which any build with lots of warriors and rangers is decent, with or without NR/Tranq. And against smite, it's tough to keep spirits up with so much aoe flying around. Smite is a pretty top-heavy build - it usually either wins or loses within the first 5 minutes. NR/Tranq takes significantly longer to kick in, so you either get rolled by smite anyway, or beat them when you would have beaten them anyway, with any other build. I think Mush was able to beat iQ once that weekend, on a very favorable map (Jade Isle), but we have struggled and lost to other smite builds.

The real problem with NR/Tranq - or at least the version we ran and the version most commonly seen, the one with a spirit spamming Rit - is that, as JR mentioned, nearly all its games last to VoD. Going till VoD each match may be a great tactic in a tournament setting (as it was for iQ), where time is not an issue, but it's an awful strategy if your goal is climbing up the ladder through rating farming. This isn't really the fault of NR/Tranq itself as it is a problem with spirit spamming Rits in general. They just make for long, boring games.

NR/Tranq was decent for breaking boon prot backlines, though many of the top 20 teams we faced were able to deal with us effectively even with 2 boon prots. And while it may be helpful against smite, it requires at least the same amount of effort and attention keeping the spirits up and interrupting the longer cast time enchantments as it would to just bring direct enchantment removal in the first place.

Many guilds have also moved towards running one or more Blessed Light monks, so the predominance of boon prots is waning - and hurting boon prots is one area where NR/Tranq shines.

Aegis chains still hurt our offensive quite a bit, but I think the worst thing about NR/Tranq (at least the way we played it) is that it hurts team movement too much. Again, this is a problem not just with NR/Tranq but with any build that relies on things like spirits and traps - skills which require a fixed location, have longish recharge times, and require the enemy to be in a certain range from the spirits. Wards are an exception to this rule, since they have pretty fast recharge times, don't require an entire character (or characters) built just to support them, and aren't dependent upon the enemy's movement, but your own.

I think NR/Tranq is still decent in Warrior and Ranger heavy builds. I'd probably put less emphasis on keep the spirits up all the time (reducing the need to run a trapper), and more emphasis on the energy denial aspect of the two spirits. NR does a great job of draining boon prots by adding that extra pip of energy maintenance, and Tranq does a decent job of reducing the energy effectiveness and increasing the interruption rate of things like Aegis, Ether Prodigy, and Boon of Creation. Just make sure your own team can work well under both spirits - i.e. don't run too many hexes, and don't run too many enchantments (Prot Spirit is the one enchantment I insisted on running on my monks, and Divine Intervention is decent too, for the same reasons). Throw in some Debilitating Shots on your rangers, maybe even experiment with Fear Me on your warriors, and hope that the condition pressure, spirits, and edenial is enough to break your opponents defenses. I've seen other guilds run E/Mo flaggers with Second Wind in place of Prodigy on their NR/Tranq builds, but they usually go straight blindbot + monk utility with a little bit of air spike thrown in. The water hexes already have long cast times even without NR up, so I'd probably avoid those. The snares from the Crip Shotter should be enough as is.

Back in the day, when American and Euro guilds were still stuck in the spike-mindset of GvG, and Korean guilds like Team Union and KOR were the only ones running warrior and ranger heavy splits with 2 monk backlines, you would occasionally see them throw up NR and QZ, just to mess with caster energy and thereby increase their own pressure. I think that's the best way to use these spirits in a GvG build - as added pressure, but not so vital that the build fails if you can't keep the spirits up.

overclocked · Sep 12, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

i thought this was the place to get help in a build not to be treated like you suck just for posting a build.

this is the last time ill post a build here for sure, and as notice of this team who was top 50, its not a horrible build, if u jerks had been constructive.

moriz · Sep 12, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

well, soul wedding once ran a monk build with life sheath. it sucked. in 20 minutes, soul wedding died more times than he died in the entire year. no korean super-leetness could save him. EvIL is a top 10 guild. does it make that particular build good? hell no. just because a high ranking guild play something, doesn't mean it's necessarily good.

some advice to you: learn humility. the initial comments directed at you were quite constructive. next time, learn to accept that you might be mistaken, and make your next build better.

JR · Sep 12, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by overclocked

i thought this was the place to get help in a build not to be treated like you suck just for posting a build.

this is the last time ill post a build here for sure, and as notice of this team who was top 50, its not a horrible build, if u jerks had been constructive.

Everyone was constructive, you just chose to ignore advice obviously thinking you knew better anyway.

And as someone who has previously been warned for trolling, I'll take your insult with a pinch of salt.

Locked,
-JR